Finding Your Startup's 'Why' with Andy Choi of Do Good Points

Ethan Peyton: Hey everybody and welcome to the Startup Savant podcast. I'm your host Ethan and this show is about the stories, challenges and triumphs of fast scaling startups and the founders who run them. Our guest on the show today is Andy Choi. 

Andy is the founder and CEO of Do Good Points, a company working to bridge the gap between nonprofits and individuals seeking to make a difference in the world. At just 14, Andy started his first company and within a few years he was seeing success not just someone in their teens. And I'm being intentionally vague about this business because I want Andy to give us the story behind this venture. And I've read a little bit about it and I'm stoked to get all the details and share them with all of you. 

But before we jump in, I wanna tell you about another podcast that I've been listening to lately. It's called Cashing Out, and it's put together by the folks over at Exitwise. Similar to this show, they bring on entrepreneurs to tell stories and gather insights, but instead of current startup founders, who have successfully exited a business. I've really enjoyed listening, so if you are interested in the later stages of the entrepreneurial journey, go check out the Cashing Out podcast. I mean, once you are finished with this, oh my God, holy crap, I can't speak, woo! I've enjoyed listening, so if you are interested in the later stages of the entrepreneurial journey, go check out the Cashing Out podcast. I mean, once you're finished with this episode, of course, in the show notes. 

All right, enough preamble, let's get into this conversation with Andy Choi of Do Good Points. Andy, how's it going today? 

Andy Choi:

I'm doing good. How are you doing, Ethan?

Ethan Peyton:

I'm doing great. We are living the dream out here in Ann Arbor and just waiting for that sun to come out. And it might happen sometime this year. I just know it will.

Andy Choi:

Yep, another day in paradise.

Ethan Peyton:

Exactly. All right, so I teased this episode by saying that you had an interesting business when you were 14. Can you tell us a lot more about this venture that you had when you were just a lad? [1:51]

Andy Choi:

Yeah, like every teen, I was looking for my first job right at like 13, but I was pretty aggressive in regards to like, I wanted to work, I wanted to make money, I had a lot of things I wanted to get or buy and like most teens, I just didn't have any experience, right? And I wasn't able to find a job, like anyone that was willing to give me a chance. Like I applied at every small business in my town, which is in Alameda, California and no one would hire me and also I had like some special work, you know, you're 14 years old. You can't you know your work permit I think starts at 16 like I had to get my parents to sign off so I had another barrier to that. But I ran into someone who was doing this random business at the time knocking on doors and painting address numbers on the curve of the street and I literally ran into this person at the park and was just kind of talking to them and like, “Hey, you know, I've been looking for a job I want to see what you're doing, can I help you out for the day?" And literally I helped them out for two days and I realized that I can do that business myself. I was like, why am I working for this person? I was like, I can do this thing.

And in suburban areas, as you guys know, like there's address numbers, you paint on the curb of the streets, right? So you go up and down and there's a stencil, you like a certain type of paint that you use for asphalt. And I was like, I can do this. And I was helping him like just paint and do things. He was going door to door knocking on the house, residential doors and he had this pitch and I just kind of learned from him in the two days and I just remember thinking I could do this and I started putting the materials together. I went to a local paint store, talked about you know like what's needed, the technique and all of that and just figured one thing out at a time and I started painting. Like I started knocking on doors myself and I was making a lot of money doing it, right? So it was something that I just did on my own and I really, from there, I was like, I can grow this thing. 

And at age 14, I decided to get a business license. Like, you know, people were trying to help me out at the same time, letting me know that, hey, you know, you need the proper forms and all of these other things. So I got my first business license, learned about the politics of opening a business, which is, you know, registering with the city, getting all of these things. And I called it the Alameda Teen Project. And we didn't charge for it, but we took donations. And it was a way to offer teens, like teens my age, ways to get work experience, you know, stay out of the streets, stay out of trouble, do all of these things, but have a productive way to develop people skills by talking to people, helping the neighborhood, knowing the neighborhood, and we're all neighborhood kids. And I started off by hiring a buddy of mine who also had the same struggle, wasn't able to find a part-time job, and it just kind of ballooned up from there, and I grew it to 21 kids and we ended up expanding into two neighboring cities and it was this little enterprise that I ran at 14 and at one point we're doing like $2,000 a day in revenue

Ethan Peyton:

Wow.

Andy Choi:

And it was yeah it was incredible like you know I had teams you know running up and down the block I had two salespeople one you know one painter so then they would go knock on doors they would have quotas to hit X amount of doors per day you know and the painter would go back and forth And we had a whole pitch, you know, like this is a team project. This is a nonprofit, you know Like we're not taking any money, but we would love a donation and average, you know “Hey, John next door gave us, you know, $20 or $40” and then you know, like Bob at the next door would then like “Oh yeah, we could match that donation or give more,” it was and it just kind of became a much bigger thing than I ever anticipated and it was kind of my journey into the business world.

Ethan Peyton:

That's an awesome story. And this is all before you're able even to drive.

Andy Choi:

Yeah, exactly. I had a little scooter that I would, like, jet. I would be sweating because I would have to go visit my teams or I would drop off lunch or check in on them. And also they were holding a lot of cash, right? We were doing really well. So then I didn't want them to hold on to more than a hundred or $200 at a time. So then I would have to do these drops and pickups. 

And I just, at one point, it got so big. I literally would pay my dad to, you know, “hey, I need to. to hire you for the afternoon to use a van, to do a couple of drops and pick up,” especially when we were expanding to neighboring cities, like that was new territory, right? So it's like, we kind of walked there, I couldn't take my scooter, but I ended up buying my first car before I even had my license. Like I bought my first car when I was like 15 years old, right? And like I bought it cash, like, you know, and I was like, and my parents couldn't even argue with me because I was like, look, I'm running this little enterprise, like I need wheels. That's a whole other story.

Ethan Peyton:

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And you know, I think it really shows a lot about, you know, kind of you as a kid, your want to just have some, have some spending cash…

Andy Choi:

Yep.

Ethan Peyton:

…and the ability to not overthink it. Because, I mean, as adults, we do that all the time. We're like, okay, I'm gonna open whatever business and it's gonna require me to do these, you know, laundry list of 80 things before I can ever even, pick up a phone or knock on a door or whatever. But I think that if we're able to kind of put that kid hat back on and say, you know what, I've got this thing that I can do, I have this skill that, you know, I've always said, if you have a truck, you have a business. 

Andy Choi:

Yep.

Ethan Peyton:

It doesn't even, I mean, it doesn't even have to go there. I was having a garage sale this past weekend and I was selling a power washer, I think it was like 50 bucks

Andy Choi:

Yeah.

Ethan Peyton:

or something like that. And I'm like, you know, if somebody comes and they want to do entrepreneur stuff, they have a business. Stick it in the trunk of your car, put it in the little red wagon and walk it around your neighborhood, whatever. It does not take that much to start something small like this, especially if you're just getting started or if you're, again, like what you were, under the age of 16, 18, whatever. I think that there's so many opportunities out here entrepreneurial experience without, you know, thinking that they need to call up a VC. It's huge.

Andy Choi:

Absolutely. I think the simplicity of it is that there is an objective, right? And there's, it's just how do you, how do you pursue and execute on that objective? Right? And at the end of the day, like, I always say this from a business standpoint, our job is like business owners or entrepreneurs just to solve one problem at a time, right? In order to get to that objective and like learning about, you know, a business license for the first time, having to go to city hall for the first time. Can you imagine a 14 year old kid coming into city hall and say, I want to start a business, right? 

I just… I remember the ladies that were working in that office and they're like you want to do What like and but they were so helpful, right? Like if there's a will there's a way, right? And they're like all right These are the parameters and obviously being a kid like you know, is this allowed is this not like there was there was so many things and So many hurdles, but again, those are just one thing at a time to your point like whether it's a prowler washer Or that you know, this was like I was a kid with an objective to do something And it's like how do I just eliminate? all of these barriers to doing that one objective. And it's, you know, as we get older, we make things more and more complicated and obviously life gets more complex and there are a lot of other external factors, but like anything else, it's just solving one problem at a time to get to that objective.

Ethan Peyton:

I think that's solid advice and I'm sure that I could keep talking about this type of business forever, but I better not do that. Let's get into the real reason you're here. Tell us what is Do Good Points? [10:03]

Andy Choi:

Do The Points is the first loyalty program for doing good. And essentially, we are the first platform where a user doesn't have to spend a single dollar to do good. So we are a social enterprise in its truest form. We’re comprised of a 501c3 foundation, as well as we are a startup tech company.

Ethan Peyton:

So you've got the foundation and you've got the for-profit. What's the, tell us about the split of the structure. How does that work? [10:27]

Andy Choi:

Yeah, so I would say the foundation is kind of the heartbeat of everything that we do, right? Everything's under this one umbrella, but, and the foundation's mission is what we call ROG. And just like ROI, return on investment in capitalism and basic business world, ROG is return on giving. How do we take, you know, resources and solve the problems within the nonprofit space, which is marketing, activating the next generation of do-gooders and just finding a better way to do business within the nonprofit space to have greater And that is a focus of the foundation which leads and guides our corporation, which is a tech company where we build and aggregate technology, resources, data in order to provide these services for nonprofits free of charge and amplify their mission. And on the corporate side, our mission as a company is to activate and empower the next generation of do-gooders.

Ethan Peyton:

So tell us a little bit more about the business model on the for-profit side. It sounds like there's some data collection, there's maybe some marketing and some other things. What's the business model on that side? [11:27]

Andy Choi:

Yeah, so there's a couple different angles to it. I'll kind of break it down. The first being as a platform, we are… think of us like a yelp for nonprofits where you can go and find resources, find whether it's like your local burrito shop or a nail salon or a bar, right? Like here at Do Good Points, you can go find your local animal shelter, food bank, different ways to do good and connect to nonprofit organizations. 

We aggregate data about the nonprofit where you can access 7 million nonprofits in the United States, but also get resources in regards to ratings, review systems, audits, impact data, and other things that make it more informative and easier to connect to nonprofits. And then from there on the platform, we also want to centralize the technology available in order to break down any barriers to doing good, right? So, what's the easiest way to donate? Can I donate monthly? What are other financial tools and resources, whether it's crypto, what we want to do is aggregate all of those services under one platform and make it easier to do good. 

So then just like Robinhood created an app and a platform to make it easier to invest in stocks. So then over 50% of people that use Robinhood had never invested in stocks before. So they took something that was incredibly complicated or at least perceived to be complicated and simplified it and activated a younger generation to participate in something that they normally didn't participate in. And we say the same for philanthropy. It's like you don't need to be Bill Gates, you know. Some billionaire to be involved in philanthropy and giving back like how do you activate today? and not having money is a big problem for the younger generation so then it's like there's other ways to connect right doing good sharing it on Social media and how do we activate those things from a platform?

Ethan Peyton:

So you mentioned something about the young folks who do want to do good, but maybe financially isn't the number one way that they can do good. So is your platform offering something for these folks that monetarily may not be the best solution for them? [13:35]

Andy Choi:

Absolutely. And we've done a ton of research, obviously, as a tech company. We're very data driven. One of the research projects we did with the PhD program at St. Mary's College, where we try to really understand the psychology of the next generation and what they define as philanthropy or doing good and having impact. And one of the key findings was exactly what you said. They don't see themselves giving monetarily as a primary way to have impact. 

That it's not preferred. One, because they're disposable income levels and things of that sort at that age, obviously are not at the level that they will be when they hit the 40s or 50s or whatever it might be. But also there's interesting data to find out. They don't, other user behaviors, but what we're looking into is then how do we lean into their behaviors like gamification, loyalty, finding fun ways and digital experience to engage. So then if they're not donating, can we be part of a game social platform that they already are on and find incentives and ways to engage them that adds value to their identity to their community to whatever they are doing and doing good as being a part of that right so then you earn points for doing good sharing something and then you can convert that points into an actual cash donation or something else that that has impact from a social level.

Ethan Peyton:

What is Creators for Good? [15:19]

Andy Choi:

Great question. So Creators for Good is a program that we run internally on the platform where we activate influencers and creators, whether it's a gamer, social media person, but essentially anyone can be a creator for good. Whether you have an influence over one person or millions of people, you can activate your community by talking about causes you care about, by using the platform that you have. 

Again, it doesn't matter if you have one follower or hundreds of thousands or millions of followers, like these are the people that community, your tribe, your family, your friends that can activate and usually, you know, we're surrounded by like-minded people, right? If I care about a cause, you know, my friend next to me, usually will support me or care about the cause itself, right? So then how do we activate creators for good, whether, you know, again, a platform of one or platform of millions to activate and utilize their platform for good.

Ethan Peyton:

Can you tell us what impact Creators for Good has had so far? [16:19] 

Andy Choi:

Yeah, so we actually just piloted the program last year, right? So we're looking to scale it this year. Some data points right off the top of my head. We've reached over 8 million people in our events and campaigns and things of that sort that we've done. We raised over $320,000 in the pilot program. We've activated over 500 creators for good to host a campaign, a live stream, a social post, anything that engages their community or friends and relatives in regards to causes that they care about. We've activated and fundraised for over 120 nonprofits and causes, whether through emergency funds or Black History Month or mental health awareness, whatever it might be based on the creator being any individual and to cause they care about and how do they use their platform for that.

Ethan Peyton:

It sounds, it sounds like it was a pretty successful pilot program.

Andy Choi:

It was, it absolutely was, and it just goes to the testament of like where the market is going with the younger generation, right? And part of that research study that we did, I was telling you about the number one way people activate, especially for social impact and doing good, nonprofits, anything else, is through recommendations, right? You know, hey, my friend John, you know, volunteered at this local soup kitchen, that's where I'm going to volunteer, right? Or you know, like Susie donated to this organization for these reasons, that's where I'm going to donate. right? So just using the peer-to-peer as well as a social aspect of it to really engage audiences.

Ethan Peyton:

So let's jump into the marketing that you all do. So who is your target market specifically? [18:02]

Andy Choi:

Younger demographic, ideally our sweet spot is between 25 to about 40 years old, 39, 40 years old, millennials. And then we're also very successful with 18 to 24 as well. And again, it's activating the next generation of do-gooders. And some key data points that you should be aware of is that the average donor in the United States today is 65 years old. Right? And it's, you know, even through going digital, there was a 30 to 35% growth in digital donations that happened, and we're still only at 16% on a good day. So it's not surprising because if the average donor is 65, then they're not usually using digital transactions, but talking about the next generation, it's like, how do we activate that? How do we convert that? So then our demographic is really focused on reaching that audience.

Ethan Peyton:

So in your company profile, which people can find over at startupsavant.com, you laid out a very detailed set of attributes for your target persona, and you actually laid out quite a few details here as well. Can you tell us about how you and your team ideated and tested this persona in a way that allowed you to get so specific? [19:19]

Andy Choi:

Yeah. And so I'm going to go back to some of our key research personas, which is, you know, like, there are people that are doing good already, people that are new to doing good, and then there are, you know, activists, right? So there's kind of different stages, right? And it's, there's a lot of different ways to think through it. We look at the psychology of it, and obviously the data behind it, but there's, you know, from a natural human instinct, like there's a mass hierarchy of needs based on where you are at in those kind of needs, human needs, like you, you know, different things take priority, right? 

And when it comes to our general like personas, we look at, we're looking to activate people that are not already, you know, activated, but are curious, are thinking about it, are finding, trying to find ways as part of their identity for the causes that they care about, right? So we always say this, we want to be, we don't define what good is for someone, right? discover that process for yourself and it's a personal journey. Right. So it's not, you know, that we try to guide someone like, “Hey, this cause is more important than that cause.” 

I think every individual person in the story is different. And those personas then are to really guide them depending on where they are, they are at and their stage. And I would say our sweet spot is activating new people, younger generations that are just figuring out the causes that they care about. And it's incredible to do that now. because the younger generation is more informed and they care more about it than ever before. And so then we also don't believe in the competition of doing good. So we're not… if someone is already activated and involved and is already a strong part of identity, we're not trying to take them away from something that they're already doing. So then how do we offer tools and resources to activate them? So those three personas are really kind of meeting them where they're at and providing resources, technology and tools to amplify them along their journey as they mature as givers, as do-gooders.

Ethan Peyton:

Yeah, it sounds, and obviously you've put a lot of thought into this and to, to kind of be able to, you know… put the different, the different groups into different buckets and, and to treat them each slightly differently, obviously all with the same goal of allowing them to do good. And I think that this is something that any business and any founder really should spend a lot of time  putting together these personas and truly truly truly understanding who it is that they are that they're serving. And you mentioned specifically that it's very data driven. Can you tell us what kind of data that you're looking at and where you are finding this data? [22:10]

Andy Choi:

Absolutely. It's definitely product led. So all of the features and things that we want to provide and prioritize is based on what the market tells us. So I always say this. This Do Good Points is not some founder vision where, unlike the Steve Jobs, it's like, I have this vision. Let's build this thing to the T, where I say, we are market driven. The public and the people tell us what we need to prioritize and what we need to build. 

And when it comes to the data piece of it, and then share some key data points that we found in our study and how we correlate that to products within our platform. One of the big research studies that we did, it's like, again, what are the barriers for you to do good? Why don't you volunteer more or donate whatever that might be? One of the key findings that was very surprising for us was that the younger generation actually doesn't care about nonprofit organizations. They don't care specifically about organizations. They care about the cause. The organization itself is actually a barrier for them to do good because trust is a huge factor. Who's running the organization? What age are they? All of these other comments and questions become barriers that keep them from activating to engage with that organization or to volunteer or whatever else. So then for example we take that data and create funds. 

So if you don’t care about XYZ nonprofit but you care about climate action. We created a fun product where we'll aggregate the top 10 nonprofits within that category based on reviews, ratings and whatever else. So then we've done all the legwork for you and now you can support this cause. So things of that sort like recommendation, social platforms, again, that was an easy one for us to figure out. 

A lot of people want to do good but they also don't want to do legwork and that's okay. You need to start somewhere and that's what technology is for. Technology allows us to simplify and kind of do a lot of the legwork for us. So then how do we aggregate that type of data, make it easier and present it in a way that's more digestible. And those are the data points that we look at to develop every feature that we have. But I think that the key thing is also to really make it fun and engaging. aspect of it, those are things that are already part of our human psyche, right? Like those are natural behaviors that we have and that the private sector utilizes very very well, right? Loyalty programs, points, games, end game, like rewards, badges and things of that sort. How do we incorporate that into doing good, right? Into behaviors that are not normally rewarded in our daily lives. How do we engage that?

Ethan Peyton:

So you mentioned putting together studies, specifically, it sounds like a very, very concerted effort to go into your pool of data, your pool of data points and pull things out. Are these studies something that you already knew how to do? Is this something that you brought on some sort of third party to help you put together some real scientific quote unquote studies? Or how did you manage these studies? [25:23]

Andy Choi:

One, I mean, I personally have, I'm a sociology major. Like I have a personal, like just love and passion for social psychology, like what drives people and like what, you know, that's essentially what business is, right? And so there's a deep like, you know, passion for it, I would say, I'm definitely not an expert. And, but from there, the tech industry is notorious and this is what, you know, the tech industry does so well, like user research, right? Like, you know, the product side of things. and really digging into that. And we, you know, we're being a tech company, we operate in that same manner, but again, our product is different. 

We're not, you know, we're not selling an app or some other service or product, but it is doing good, it's social impact, right? So then utilizing those best practices within the tech space and applying it to this sector and the human psyche of doing good. That was a challenge, but that's also what made it fun, right? Like that was the challenge we wanted to take on. In addition to that, bringing in research specialists, we had people like Yashal and our team that came in whose entire background is research, and social impact, so then utilizing that from a big enterprise level to kind of our startup, like solving the problems that we're doing. 

And then I mentioned utilizing outside resources, like the St. Mary's PhD program, which was an educational program, they dedicated an entire course for us, one quarter. They developed a survey, it took months to develop one survey to ask the right questions for us to get the right data that we need in order to build and prioritize the right features that we wanted to do on our platform, right? So using outside factors to make sure, because when it comes to research and surveys, it's sometimes it's how and what question you ask that will ultimately make all the difference, right? So then really putting a lot of thought into that and like getting the responses and the data points that we really needed.

Ethan Peyton:

That's huge. I think that thinking that deeply is probably the level that people need to get to. I don't think that they need to get to that on the first day. Obviously, like you said, you know, these studies, some of them took months to get put together. But I think that, you know, if you're finding some sort of success and you want to continue moving that forward, I think that this is an area where it will pay back in gigantic multiples to know your people better.

Andy Choi:

Absolutely.

Ethan Peyton:

So let's talk about how you're reaching this market. What are the kind of channel or channels that you are finding best suited to get into the eyes of this market? [28:13]

Andy Choi:

Yeah, I would. So being in the nonprofit space, I've never worked in this space before, right? I've been involved through my family and just personal… So coming into this space, it was a tough learning experience, right? And I remember when I first started Do Good Points, one of the first things I did was like, I was like, I'm gonna go to every nonprofit conference I can find and the biggest ones and just really kind of submerge myself in this space. And, you know, cause we were trying to figure out, like, is this the right problem we're solving, right? Like, how do we fit into this space? Like, because I didn't want to be another nonprofit. 

Like, I feel like that's the lasting thing this world needs is like another nonprofit, right? So when I go to these conferences, the majority of them, the keynotes, were always talking about the younger generation, how to reach them. Um, but none of them fucking talked about like how to actually do it. They just kept talking about the importance of it, right? Um, because like, you know, donors aging out, like as the, you know, again, the average donors 65 years old, like they're literally, passing away and there's no one else taking their place. So these nonprofits are shutting down left and right because they have no strategies. 

So, you know, like those were the things I figured out, but it's like, how do we then reach these audiences? We go to where to add, you know, like if they're on Twitch playing a video game, we go to that platform. It's not an “if I build it, they will come” scenario. It's like, how do we go into the marketplace, provide value, provide, you know, like fit into that space. you know, fill the gaps where, you know, where we are solving our problem and reach them there, right? It wasn't this like, “if I build it, they will come” scenario. So to answer that question, you know, we're going into the marketplace where younger generations are spending their time social media, twitch, gaming, loyalty programs, retailers, and participating in their daily lives and solving the problems of getting them to activate doing good within the space that they're already in.

Ethan Peyton:

Did you have some familiarity with platforms like Twitch and YouTube Gaming and all these other streaming platforms for gamers and creators? Did you have familiarity with that or is that something that was new to you? [30:23]

Andy Choi:

So gaming specifically was definitely new to me. Gaming was just… wasn't something I did growing up. I was running a business at 14. It didn't give me a lot of time to play video…

Ethan Peyton:

Right.

Andy Choi:

…games, to be honest. I played things growing up, like Street Fighter, Tekken, and stuff like that when I was a kid. But that's completely different from what the world of gaming is today, and the whole streaming. So that particular space is absolutely new, and I'm still learning it. And I'm very upfront about it. So we have amazing teams. and agencies that we work with that allow me to learn and grow in that space. But outside of that, I was previously at a tech company where we did big loyalty marketing campaigns with big programs like airlines, banks, and institutions that engage massive audiences for engagement for a private sector. So if Best Buy ran a campaign to do research or to find more about their customers, engage them, I was at a company that activated those kinds of programs. So then utilizing those, like that experience, those resources is kind of where the genesis of Do Good Points was as well.

Ethan Peyton:

All right, I'm gonna take a very hard left turn here and ask you,

Andy Choi:

Yeah.

Ethan Peyton:

What is effective altruism? [31:50]

Andy Choi:

Man, thanks for asking that question. I love to talk about this and I've learned that I need to explain it from a very basic level because one, I'm not an expert at it, but two, it's usually a new thought, but essentially the way I like to explain it, and there's more to it than this. And I challenge everyone to search and research it themselves, but it is the idea that what I'm doing, is this the best way to do it? That's simply put, like if I have 10 hours in a day, what’s the best way to use that 10 hours, right? 

But more specifically, if I can do good, what is the best way for me to do good? So from a monetary standpoint, if I only have $100, where's the best place I can donate this $100 to? Right? That's a simple idea. And it's like, I want to have the maximum, you know, and again, what we call ROG return on giving, right? If I give this $100, I want this $100 to do the maximum impact that it can have. Outside of that, if I am a digital marketer, someone that's been in the tech industry, I get paid X amount of dollars, a large sum of money to do something I'm very good at. I have a high expertise in. And then I go volunteer on the weekend on a Saturday, 10 hours at a local soup kitchen. Nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

But from an effective altruism standpoint, was that the best way for me to spend 10 hours? Was that going to have the greatest impact that I'm able to have by utilizing my knowledge, my resources, my entire network or whatever it is, like, was that the best way to spend 10 hours? Probably not. Right? And so then it's like, how do we, you know, utilizing what we have, do the best that we can, right? And that's the simple ideology and kind of exactly where, you know, how I approach my personal journey with Do Good Points and, you know, everything else.

Ethan Peyton:

Do you have a framework that you use or a series of steps to ensure that you are using your resources, whether that be time or funds or attention in the most impactful way? [33:52]

Andy Choi:

Absolutely. But I hesitate to say this to share it because it always changes. I think at different seasons of my life, talking just purely about do-go points, but just in work in general, there were different focuses. Right? I'm a very different person than I was when I started my first business, when I was 14. I had very different objectives and agendas than I do now. So then I think those frameworks constantly change. But ultimately it always starts with just why, like why am I going to do this? what I'm going to do. Why am I pursuing this business? And just really the whole Simon Sinek model, right? 

It's like, what is the why? What is the reasoning, like the foundation to this entire endeavor, right? And I think that is the starting point in the genesis for anything. So I would always like that based on that why, the what and the how always changes, right? Because depending on how that why is, it's like, I'm always looking for the fastest way to get to that why,

Ethan Peyton:

Right.

Andy Choi:

…right? distractions, what are the things I need to cut away in order to get to that why as fast and as soon as possible.

Ethan Peyton:

Right, so now that you've found the why, okay, so I'm gonna press you a little bit because I'm really interested. I like the way…

Andy Choi:

absolutely.

Ethan Peyton:

…you think, so I wanna get in there. So we're not necessarily looking for answers at this point. What we're looking for is the questions. So once you start with why am I doing this, once you kind of have answered that question, what's the next question that you ask yourself to make sure that you are taking not just a path to the goal, but the best path, most effective path? [35:35]

Andy Choi:

That's great. And I love what Tony Robbins says about this. He says, the quality of your life is determined by the quality of the questions that you ask. Right. And I absolutely believe that. So then to your point, spending the proper amount of time to figure out the right questions to ask. Right. Because once you figure out the why, then it's like, you know, there's so many questions that come up. And a lot of questions oftentimes start with just problems. I need a problem. We don't need to get in a rush to reach problems. 

Finding out the questions first, it's like, all right, like what are the type of problems that I want to solve? Why do I want to solve this problem? And just digging into that more and more and really figuring out how I fit into it, right? Being honest with myself, realistic with myself in regards to like what are my strengths? Leaning into my strengths rather than, you know, trying to solve for all of the areas that I have I lack or weaknesses, right? And then identifying those things because I want to go the path of least resistance, right? And I think as an entrepreneur, it's not so much that we lack resources, we lack resourcefulness. 

So then the way to activate the resourcefulness is really to ask the right questions. So then the next frame of questions to that why is just really figuring out, these questions need to lead to this path of least resistance to get to my why. And I hope I'm doing a good job answering your question, but it's like, every scenario is obviously very different. And then letting the problems kind of discover themselves, right? Instead of looking for problems. I think what I've seen a lot of entrepreneurship, like people are looking for problems to solve. It's like, that's a terrible way to run a business…

Ethan Peyton:

Right.

Andy Choi:

…or to pursue something, right? Like, I don't want problems. Problems just happen,

Ethan Peyton:

Yeah.

Andy Choi:

…right? Problems are just surprises I didn't want, right?

Ethan Peyton:

Yeah, because you know what's going to happen when you look for them. You're going to find them.

Andy Choi:

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. And it's like, I don't, I don't need to go hunting for problems. Like those things will come, right? I need to go look for solutions and find a path of least resistance because again, the problem is just, that's what I need to minimize. That's my job, right? As a founder, as an entrepreneur, that's my job, right? And then finding the right people to help me solve those problems.

Ethan Peyton:

All right, I love that answer. So I'm stoked that we took that one step deeper.

Andy Choi:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ethan Peyton:

All right, tell us what surprised you about entrepreneurship? [38:11]

Andy Choi:

Man, there's so many surprises, right? And I think there's a lot of different ways that I can answer this, but I think the one thing that really, you know, just being vulnerable and to share that openly with you is just the surprise of like being responsible for others. And I, you know, like there's nothing that prepares you for that, you know? And I think that's one of the biggest barriers to entrepreneurship and doing good. And I say this, unless you've run a business yourself, like, it's really hard to explain to other founders or other, you know, I mean, not to other founders, but to other people is that if it was just me, I can deal with it. 

I have a really high risk tolerance. I know exactly what I'm getting myself into and I could be responsible for myself. But when you are responsible for the livelihood of others, their income, their family, their, their livelihood, the amount of pressure that it puts on, you know, on me and other founders to, to be the person that’s leading, to be the visionary, to be the boss, to be whatever you want to call it. That pressure is just, you can't explain it. And that pressure only grows as you grow, as your business grows and the responsibility behind that. And that surprised me because oftentimes you start a business because you're fired up. 

Like I'm like, I want to do this. I have this problem, like there's this problem I want to solve. This is my ‘why,’ all of those things. But how often do you think you can solve this? How often do people think about others first? Because I'm not going to go on this journey by myself, but did I spend enough time thinking about, thinking about who's going to join this journey with me? What's the process of this journey? And that's something I've learned over the years. And obviously when I was 14 and started my first business, that was the beginning of this journey. But at every stage, as I grow and as I mature, that is a one piece that continues to surprise me. But also it continues to bless me. That is the blessing of this journey. Yeah, let me pause there. Did I answer your question?

Ethan Peyton:

Yeah, oh yeah, you nailed it. I mean, that was, I didn't know what your answer was gonna be, so…

Andy Choi:

Yeah.

Ethan Peyton:

…yeah, you knocked it out of the park.

Andy Choi:

Yeah, yeah. And I'm happy to elaborate more. Well, I guess there's, there's one thing I will share. Like, everyone says like now that I'm in like the philanthropy and nonprofit industry, like, oh, great, you know, like this, that's amazing, you know, and it's like, nah, I don't feel warm and fuzzy every day. Like, you know, that's just not the fucking case. Like oftentimes it's work. You know what I mean? Like I show up to work, like anyone else shows up to work and yes, it's a blessing to be in the space that I'm in, but it's also incredibly frustrating. 

Not every cause I'm fired up about right or I'm like I'm not like weeping over everything or every tragedy that happens. I wouldn't be able to do my job every day if that was the case. It'll be too exhausting. But one thing that is consistent in addition… adding to that question is that… I show up every day to work with the people that I'm working with right to do good with our team first before we can ever do good externally right and that is a blessing of working and starting this business and It took me a lot of years to figure out and get to this point, but that is what my job is, is to serve them and to do, if I can't do good with them, I'm not going to do good with anyone else. And if they don't believe in the mission, then no one else is going to believe in the mission. And I think that is the greatest challenge, but also the greatest blessing.

Ethan Peyton:

So you may have answered this, you may have given some points to the answer to this, but how do you deal with it? Like you've learned over and over that this is the thing, this pressure is the thing that continues to surprise you. What do you do? I mean, are you just an excellent meditator or is there a book that we should all read? Or…[41:55]

Andy Choi:

Yeah.

Ethan Peyton:

…what do you do?

Andy Choi:

That's a great… I think there's a lot of different things. There's a couple things that stand out to me and that become incredibly important to me, but I believe in servant-based leadership. I believe that the founder or the boss's job is to serve the people that are making the mission possible. So my job in finding the best ways to do this is to how do I empower and enable them to do what they do best, right? And I believe everyone on our team, everyone I work with have a mission and it's like, how do I amplify that? And learning ways to serve them better is what I put my energy into. 

So to your point, meditating, finding ways to make sure that my ego, that things that are unhealthy in my development are not getting in the way of doing my purpose and reason to serve, right? So being part of CEO groups and other groups that really focus on that same philosophy and mindset as well, I'm part of a group that meets once a month of founders and CEOs that focus on servant-based leadership, right? And kind of finding other and healthy ways to really like grow teams, not just from a, you know, business objective, but really amplify like the mission from inside out, right? And it doesn't matter what industry you're in, but obviously being in an industry that I'm in, it's a little bit more amplified, right? So then it's like really serving that and finding avenues to develop those skills because like anything else, I need to constantly learn and grow in order to exercise those muscles.

Ethan Peyton:

All right, we're working on some great stuff here. I hope everyone's got their pen and pad out because they've got some notes to take here and probably some homework too. But we're gonna move on. What is next for Do Good Points? [44:00]

Andy Choi:

I'm so excited for this next phase. We are finally ready to really scale our efforts. So we have so many programs that we've piloted and launched and really trying to figure out exactly where our priorities are. So what's next for Do Good Points? We are looking to scale our Creators for Good program, scale our partnerships, really go into the marketplace, and amplify the successes that we've seen. 

So last year, we grew 1,500%. right in an eight month period and really kind of leaning into those strengths and areas this year and then growing our team internally as we amplify those efforts we also have a number of really large partnership deals that we've been working on for some for over two years that are you know kind of reaching the end of its sales cycle partnership development cycle and we're really excited to get those things going but also I, you know, constantly adapting again to the marketplace right and letting the market tell us where, you know, and direct where our initiatives and goals are. 

And one of the things that we're really excited about is obviously the whole buzz right now is about AI and how, you know, that's changing, you know, the tools and services that we use. But when I think about AI and how it can change and serve the nonprofit space, I get incredibly excited about that, right? And traditionally, the nonprofit space is way behind on technology, right? Like, you know, again, I told you like only 16% of the market right now which is a huge problem. But as a tech company that's looking to amplify our mission, like when I think about AI and introducing those types of services into our space, I get super excited about that.

Ethan Peyton:

Sounds like there's a lot going on. Sounds like we've got a lot to look forward to. All right, we're gonna hit my favorite question because I just love what comes out of it. What is your number one piece of advice for early stage entrepreneurs? [45:55]

Andy Choi:

Man, I want to give this some serious thought….Start with why. You know, I, and I want to quote Simon Sinek, like our why drives us. It's the only thing that will feed us because the struggle is real. Like it is so fucking real. The problems are so real, like and they'll be endless. And the barriers as you know, if you've been, if you've been on this road long enough, you know, like it, it just wears you down, right? It just continues to wear you down. But the only thing that can keep you going is your why. And to be honest with yourself, right? Because I think oftentimes I see a lot of entrepreneurs and business people that do it for the wrong reason. 

Like, “oh, I just want to make more money. I want to…” And those things can only take you so far, right? And the things that will really be tried and true and withstand the test of time is like when there is a meaning and there's a mission that’s greater than you, that why, that’s what will drive you. That will like, because again, the problems are endless, you know, and it's persistence that will persevere. And the only thing that will continue to drive us is that purpose and that reason. And whatever that is for every individual, you know, it doesn't, you know, like you will find ways to make impact, but your life needs to drive you in regards to reaching those goals.

Ethan Peyton:

That is an excellent, excellent, excellent piece of advice. And of course that comes from the book called Start With Why from Simon Sinek. And just for the folks listening out there, we'll put a link up to that in the show notes. So if you wanna really do your homework on this, you can go pick up that book and check it out. All right, last question. Where can people connect with you online and how can our listeners support Do Good Points? [48:03]

Andy Choi:

I love to connect with people that are on this mission. LinkedIn will probably be the best way from a business standpoint. And Detroit Do Good Points. And as far as support, we're always looking for partners in our mission, any company, any brand can amplify their corporate responsibility. 

There's cause, marketing, social impact. All of the data shows that the younger generation want to connect with brands that have a stance in regards to the area that they do business. that's having a local impact or to having a greater, bigger impact within the cost space itself. And those are barriers to brands and companies because you focus on what you do best. Amplify and use the platform that you have by partnering with companies like Do Good Points or nonprofits that are experts within the space that you want to approach and work with us. We're happy to guide you in the right direction, whether that's with or without us. companies should absolutely make that a priority.

Ethan Peyton:

Where should those brands reach out to?

Andy Choi:

They can reach out to me directly at Andy@DoGoodPoints.com.

Ethan Peyton:

Sweet. All right, Andy, this has been so much fun. I've really enjoyed this conversation. Hopefully, I see Do Good Points on every stream that I watch from this point forward. That would be really awesome.

Andy Choi:

Absolutely.

Ethan Peyton:

And folks listening, we're gonna put everything you heard today in the show notes over at Startupsavant.com slash podcast. Andy, thank you. Thank you for coming on. This has been great.